[心得]POLYOL-ESTER 多元醇酯機油-真正合成油

請問台灣有那一支機油有標示清楚-POLYOL-ESTER 口頭講的還是用準的.真正的有誰用過.有興趣在跟大家閒聊交換知識.
資料都是有依據,不是亂篇.主要是台灣還無法生產此油無此技術,國外也還沒有油廠有生產用在汽車上.

多元醇酯(PolyolEster)基礎油Group5特性:
抗氧化性特強、低揮發性，生成酸性物質的量少，再高溫下也不容易成膠漆或結碳，至產品劣化時不易形成積垢,它的高溫穩定及清潔性都很好，超高潤滑性，蒸發性低，在兩種金屬表上，易吸收極性分子，形成保護膜。特殊高溫穩定性,它是目前新式噴射機引擎潤滑油與F-1賽車首選.
PolyolEster Based oil Group 5 characteristic:
The oxidation resistance is extra-powerful, low volatility, acidic material’s quantity produced are less, even under high temperature will not easily generate carbon or rubber/paint, product will not easily accumulate dirt when deteriorating.

Its high temperature stability and detergent performance is excellent, Superelevation lubricating. The vapor character is low, on the surface of two types of metal is easy to absorb Polar molecule so to generate protective film.


[ 本文章最後由 dleoil 於 2010-2-25 04:20 編輯 ]

red line可以滿足你的需求

300V 是你最好的選擇!~
使用過red line後的感想!~
還是300V較棒!~

印象中 300v工廠線

也是這種油

但一罐真貴呀>"<

第五類的基礎油是很貴的
除了基礎油之外，那添加劑的部分呢?

我曾經在我的YAMAHA R1 加過 Motul 300V，是感覺還不錯，但是添加劑會慢慢減少，而且換檔跟離合器感覺就不順了

原文章由 RV楓 於 2010-2-25 09:49 發表
300V 是你最好的選擇!~
使用過red line後的感想!~
還是300V較棒!~

MOTUL+1，REDLINE雖然評價啊色是文章都說的很好聽，分數還比300V高，但真的是300V好，都用過才知道
另外推薦個與主題不相關的，個人認為REPSOL的油不錯用，比300V便宜呢

REDLINE 也只有沒熱時比 300V 好拉阿.

而且... 5W50 VS 5W40 ... 跟本沒參考價值, 光 CST 100度C 就差很大了.

跟拿蜂蜜和水比流性一樣

POE 用 5W50 .125CC 國產機車會笨掉...093.gif   太黏...

300V 5W40 是給檔車的極品

REDLINE 是給國產CVT機車的好選折

個人覺得是這樣.


合成油... GROUP 4 的 PAO 不是真正的?  GROUP 5 的合成油也是有很爛的,別懷疑.

TO, 原PO , Your english is horrid.


PS. 300V 4T , REDLINE 的 5W40 都用過.

[ 本文章最後由 Asakim 於 2010-2-25 14:27 編輯 ]

此篇是美國機油論壇:我朋友發表polyol-ester有此機油.英國一位車友發表此篇文章,此人應該有待過油廠實驗室.此文章屬於機油成分機密.暗藏玄機.屬於很專業.機油比率講的很清楚.

About percentage of esters in motor oil MOTUL 300V and 0W-30 X-lite.
有關摩特300V和0W30 X-lite酯類機油的比例
The descriptions of 300V and 8100 X-lite have only uninformative words about "100% Synthetic - Double Ester Technology" or "100% Synthetic - Ester Based", but how much esters contained in motor oils exactly?
在300V和8100 X-lite的包裝說明上有著不太資訊化的字眼有關100%合成油-雙酯科技或者100%合成油-酯類基礎油,但有多少比例的酯類在這機油內呢?
1) "100% Synthetic" means that there are base oils only group III (hydrocracked), group IV (PAO) and group V (esters). But there are all three groups of base oils (including esters) in different proportions is in very many motor oils of many manufacturers.
百分百合成油指的是有著只有G3(HC),G4(PAO)和G5(酯類).但這三類的基礎油(包含酯類機油)在不同油廠的不同黏度的機油下造成不同的比例.
2) "Double Ester Technology" - this is only NAME of technology with some information about two kinds of esters in motor oil.
”雙酯科技”－這是兩種不同的酯類機油下僅有的名稱
3) "Ester based" – it generally means only indefinite content esters (1%-99%). Moreover, it’s wrong to say even 50% content of esters in the X-lite because of the fact that there are 8-12% PAO trimer dodecene CAS 151006-62-1 in X-lite ( http://www.motul-canada.com / en/products/products_info/Engine_oil/CAR_Engine_Oil_100pc_Synthetic/8100_X-lite_0W30/8100_X-lite_0W30_MSDS.pdf ). And EWC waste disposal No is (from MSDS) 13 02 05 - mineral-based non-chlorinated engine, gear and lubricating oils.
酯類基礎油-通常指的是不確定的內容物(可從1%到99%),因此,如果說在摩特X-lite這隻油品上有著50%的酯類比例這是錯誤的訊息.因為事實上卻只有8~12%PAO的三聚丁烯在X-lite油品中(從這支油品的MSDS判讀中知道這是基礎油是用礦物油為基準)
4) Quote from http://forums.mxtrax.co.uk/showthread.php?t=12096&page=3 : "Motul 300V IS NOT 100% Ester. Anybody who tells you otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about. Just because an oil states 100% Synthetic-it doesn't mean it has to be ALL ESTER, it can be a blend of Ester/PAO/AN/GP3 (Hydrocracked to you) in any proportion and still be labelled 100% Synthetic! ! FYI Motul is very good oil but unless the formulation has changed very recently it is no more than 30% Ester ... Bring me some facts if you want to dispute this. In my experience I have never seen or tested a commercially available motor oil that is 100% Ester. The vast majority that claim: '100% Synthetic, Ester 'or' Ester 100% Synthetic 'are very cleverly marketed PAO / Ester based formulations that contain Approx. 20% Ester. "
摩特300V的油品並非百分百的酯類.除非有任何人告訴你,否則你都不會知道以上內容在講什麼.只因為油品上寫著百分百全合成油,但這並不代表油品全都是用酯類下去製作.極度有可能是用任何比例的Ester/PAO/AN/GP3(對你們來說是HC),但標籤上還是標示著百分百全合成油.摩特的FYI這支油品是很好的油品但除非內容物改變,否則絕不可能有超過30%的Ester在油品中.

如你要和我辯論酯類機油比例的同時,請給我實際上的証明.在我的經驗當中,在商業場上從來沒有一家公司的機油經過測試過後有著百分之百的Ester.最多寫著百分百的全合成油-Ester或者是Ester,百分之百的全合成油,這點在市場上被PAO/Ester基礎油下去調配而隔開來,這其中大約有百分之二十的Ester.

5) Quote from http://www.wikitt.org/wikiTT/index.php?title=Oil_Change : "The Motul 8100 X-lite 0W-30 Synthetic Ester oil (VW 503.01) appears to be the best available oil for use in the TT as far as I am aware. Guy told me that the 300V line uses only 20% ester and it's called "ester" too. "
就如我所知的摩特8100 0W30這支酯類油品似乎是用在奧迪TT的車輛上.有人告訴我說摩特300V這支油品只有用了20%但這也是稱作酯類

How to know exact percentage of esters in 300V(50% or 90%?) and X-lite (1%, 10% or 49%)?

但要如何知道正確的摩特300V(50%~90%嗎?)和X-lite(1%,10%還是49%呢)正確的酯類比例呢?

About Polyol Esters   
In our family of polyol ester, you find high purity dipentaerythritol, pentaerythritol and trimethylolpropane esters for use in applications where thermal stability, high viscosity index and lubricity are essential.  Typical usages include raw material for spin finishers and oiling agents, lubricants, lubricating oil, and as jet engine lubricants.
  
The term "polyol esters" is short for neopentyl polyol esters which are made by reacting monobasic fatty acids with polyhedric alcohols having a "neopentyl" structure. The unique feature of the neopentyl structure of polyol alcohols molecules is the fact that there are no hydrogens on the beta-carbon.  As a result, polyol esters usually have added polarity, reduced volatility and enhanced lubricity characteristics. This makes polyol esters ideally suited for the higher temperature applications where the performance of diesters and PAOs may fade.

Hatco uses many different acids and alcohols for manufacturing polyol esters and an even greater number of permutations are possible due to the multiple ester linkages. The difference in ester properties as they relate to the alcohols are primarily those related to molecular weight such as viscosity, pour point, flash point, and volatility. The versatility in designing these fluids is mainly related to the selection and mix of the acids esterified onto the alcohols.

The major application for polyol esters is jet engine lubricants where they have been used exclusively for more than 30 years. In this application, the oil is expected to flow at -54 C, pump readily at -40 C, and withstand sump temperature approaching 200 C with drain intervals measured in years. Only polyol esters have been found to satisfy this demanding application.

Polyol esters are also the ester of choice for blending with PAOs in passenger car motor oils. This application reduces fuel consumption and lowers volatility in modern specifications. They are used in 2-cycle oils for the same reasons plus biodegradability.

Polyol esters are used extensively in synthetic refrigeration lubricants due to their miscibility with non-chlorine refrigerants. They are also widely used in a variety of very high temperature applications such as industrial oven chains, stationary turbine engines, high temperature grease, fire resistant transformer coolants, fire resistant hydraulic fluids, and textile lubricants.

For more information about our extensive line of trimethylolpropane, pentaerythritol esters and dipentaerythritol, we encourage confidential consultation with our technically trained Business Managers who  can guide you to the best products or development programs. Given of the complexity involved in balancing the physical, chemical, and performance characteristics of our extensive range of ester products with the exact application and market needs, this preliminary consultation allows for the selection of the best product based on properties determined by you or defined by your application.

You can email us at hatcoinfo@chemtura.com, or submit your requirements using our Ester Design Sheet. Either way you can count on prompt and confidential service.



In general, polyol esters represent the highest performance level available for high temperature applications at a reasonable price.

The primary benefits include extended life, higher temperature operation, reduced maintenance and downtime, lower energy consumption, reduced smoke and disposal, and biodegradability.

  在多元醇酯的家人您找到純度高 dipentaerythritol、 季戊四和 trimethylolpropane 酯在應用程式中使用的熱穩定性高粘度指數、 潤滑性是必要。 用於數字顯示名將和加油代理，潤滑劑，潤滑油，和 Jet(噴射機) 引擎潤滑劑，典型的用法包括原料。

  
"多元醇酯"一詞是縮寫 neopentyl 多元醇酯，由反應一元脂肪酸但有一個"neopentyl"結構的 polyhedric 醇。 聚合醇醇分子 neopentyl 結構的特色是測試碳有沒有 hydrogens。 而導致多元醇酯通常有添加極性、 減少波動性和增強潤滑性特性。 這使得 ideally suited for 較高的溫度應用程式的多元醇酯 diesters 和 PAOs 的性能可能淡的如。
Hatco 使用很多不同的酸及醇醇酯生產和的排列的一個更大的一些可能由於多個酯聯繫。 酯屬性中的差異，有關該醇主要是那些有關分子量粘度、 降點、 閃點，和波動。 與選擇和組合到該醇酯化的酸的主要相關設計這些液體的多功能性。
主要的應用程式的多元醇酯是 Jet(噴射機) 引擎潤滑劑，他們已使用專為三十多年。 在此應用程式中，油預計流量-54 C，很容易在-40 C，泵和耐水倉溫度接近 200 C 與人才流失的時間間隔以年來衡量。 只有多元醇酯找到滿足此要求苛刻的應用程式。
(多元醇酯也是選擇配料 PAOs 與乘客汽車發動機油酯。 此應用程式降低了燃料的消耗量，並降低了現代的規範中的波動。 他們在 2 週期油使用相同的原因加生物降解)。
在綜合製冷潤滑劑，即將其與無氯製冷劑的相容性廣泛使用多元醇酯。 他們亦廣泛用於各種工業烘箱鏈、 固定渦輪引擎、 高溫油脂、 防火變壓器冷卻劑、 防火的液壓油和紡織潤滑劑等很高的溫度應用程式。
我們廣泛的行，trimethylolpropane、 季戊四酯 dipentaerythritol 的更多有關我們鼓勵我們技術上曾受訓練的業務經理可以指導您最好的產品或發展計畫的人機密諮詢。 初步諮詢工作允許選擇最好的產品，根據由您或您的應用程式定義的屬性的提供在平衡我們廣泛酯產品的確切的應用程式和市場需求的物理、 化學和性能特徵的複雜性。
您可以電郵我們在 hatcoinfo@chemtura.com，或您使用我們酯設計工作表的要求提交。 任何一種方式可以計算迅速及保密的服務。

一般情況下，多元醇酯表示最高的性能級別可用於以合理的價格的高溫應用程式。
主要優點包括延長的壽命、 較高的溫度操作、 降低的維護停機時間、 降低能量消耗、 減少的煙霧和處理及生物降解。

供應航太都沒有生產-那紅線有嗎-瓶子上有標示嗎-聽聽就好.093.gif

調配你所說的汽車引擎機油以及達到要求的規範是很難的.我們沒有任何的機器設備來達到所要求的任務和需求,機油添加劑公司如
Chevron,Infineum,Afton,Lubrizol等公司的員工,設備以及專家可以調配你想要的油品.他們絕對是你所想要的候選人條件.

2010/1/20 Magram, Av - Fords, NJ <Av.Magram@chemtura.com>

Jason:



Formulating automotive engine oil to meet the required specifications is a difficult, demanding and expensive task for which we are not equipped.  The additive companies, Chevron, Infineum, Afton and Lubrizol have extensive staffs, equipment and expertise in formulating these oils.  They would be better candidates to assist you.



Regards,



Avron B. Magram

Global Business Director

Refrigeration Lubricants & Esters

Hatco Division, Chemtura Corporation

1020 King George Post Road

Fords, NJ  08863



Office Telephone:  732-738-3666

Fax:                    732-738-9758

Mobile Phone:      732-910-1387



e-Mail:        av.magram@chemtura.com