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KirinSu 發表於 2015-4-20 22:50 MotoGP 阿根廷站 正賽 討論4413
大大您說的沒錯,整體圈速Rossi較快,小弟可能說的不夠清楚,我僅談"倒數第2圈第13號彎"的彎速,若MM93彎 ...
......我僅談"倒數第2圈第13號彎"的彎速,若MM93彎速較慢,那就不會與Rossi有第一次碰撞。......




小弟以一個鍵盤/嘴砲車手來談, 也是僅談這個彎的彎速.

這麼反問吧, 如果 MM93 在這個彎的彎速是比 VR46 快的, 那 MM93 為何不能成功在該彎反超?

看似 MM93 有辦法從被 VR46 超前後還能再追撞上 VR46, 就覺得其實是 MM93 的彎速較快, 其實是一種錯覺.

造成這種錯覺的主因, 就是兩人跑的線不同.

VR46 入彎是從 MM93 內側採 trail-brake, early apex, late-throttle 的線,

相較下, MM93 的線成了 late-brake, late apex, early-throttle 的線.

甫入彎時, VR46 的確跑在前頭了.

VR46 的線在 MM93 第一次從後撞上前沒改變過, 但 MM93 的線已改變過, 而且變得更有 early-throttle 的機會.

正是 MM93 這個更有 early-throttle 的機會與動作, 使其能追撞上 VR46, 造成會有 MM93 這個彎的彎速比 VR46 快的錯覺.

但還是超不過, 為什麼? 不是車手的問題, 是胎不行了, 強弩之末了.

如果當時 MM93 的胎還行, 其實離路沿石也都還有夠用的路面, 何況 MM93 是個非常會用路沿石的車手,

如果胎還行, 何不乾脆就吃一點路沿石來反超呢?

說穿了, 就是胎害 MM93 輸掉冠軍的.

但輸掉整場比賽, 是 MM93 自己害的, 沒有名次, 沒有積分, 沒過終點線, 沒完賽, Nothing!

在我看來, MM93 很會用路面, 但 VR46 很會用路線.



最後, 懇請不要砲小弟, 就事論事歡迎.

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讚: 5.0
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分析的很棒! 純粹只是兩個人走的路線不同. MM走的路線很不利接下來的第14號彎.  發表於 2015-4-21 09:49
kvn8168 發表於 2015-4-19 02:01 MotoGP 阿根廷站 正賽 討論140
排位 ok.明天ROSSI拿冠軍

朋友啊! 有沒有看到,rossi真是太給力了,居然拿冠軍.....神預測... 來去買大樂透...30億A....中了立馬買R3MotoGP 阿根廷站 正賽 討論1656

給個讚

讚: 5.0
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『朋友啊! 有沒有看到,rossi真是太給力了,居然拿冠軍.....神預測... 來去買大樂透...30億A....中了立馬買R3』......瞧你爽的,是威力彩啦。祝你中頭獎!   發表於 2015-4-21 01:58

抱歉, 我搞錯了, 更正如下:

那個彎是 5 號彎. MM93 是在 5 號彎被 VR46 超掉的, 然後 MM93 在 6 號彎前摔車.

MotoGP 阿根廷站 正賽 討論5024

"......A fast exchange of positions followed through turns two, three and four, with Rossi exiting turn five in the lead......"

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/20 ... l-or-nothing/174293
for007youreyes 發表於 2015-4-20 23:48 MotoGP 阿根廷站 正賽 討論1104
小弟以一個鍵盤/嘴砲車手來談, 也是僅談這個彎的彎速.

這麼反問吧, 如果 MM93 在這個彎的彎速是比 V ...

oh~原來如此,進彎路線造成的錯覺小弟確實沒考慮到。感謝大大精闢見解又多學到看賽事的眉角。

而且應該是在6號彎摔車,但轉播當時是秀出在第14號彎,看得一頭霧水。
KirinSu 發表於 2015-4-21 08:46 MotoGP 阿根廷站 正賽 討論7282
oh~原來如此,進彎路線造成的錯覺小弟確實沒考慮到。感謝大大精闢見解又多學到看賽事的眉角。

而且應該 ...
而且應該是在6號彎摔車,但轉播當時是秀出在第14號彎,看得一頭霧水。




呵~ 看實況轉播會一頭霧水是正常的, 因為常常連主播他們自己都一頭霧水, 然後觀眾也就跟著一頭霧水.

曾遇過不只一次的烏龍狀況是, 把沒摔車的車手說成摔車的車手, 結果比賽繼續看呀看才發現......

怪了, 那個不是剛才報說已經摔了的, 怎麼還在場上跑得好好的, 還可以成功超車......OOXX......



大家互相交流互相學習囉, 彼此都能獲得成長的.
86#
nzj323 2015-4-21 10:08 只看這個作者
kvn8168 發表於 2015-4-21 01:30 MotoGP 阿根廷站 正賽 討論5763
朋友啊! 有沒有看到,rossi真是太給力了,居然拿冠軍.....神預測... 來去買大樂透...30億A....中了立馬買R3 ...

不知道運彩有沒有MotoGP 阿根廷站 正賽 討論3508

MotoGP 官網最新發佈的關於 Argentina 站 Rossi 與 Marquez 間 Racing incident 的影片, 併附一篇 www.crash.net 的評論, 感興趣的可參考:

標題: MotoGP Argentina 2015 - Valentino Rossi & Marc Marquez - Racing incident

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksFEI0hhiNo

給個讚

影片內有空拍圖, 所以當時 VR46 跟 MM93 跑得線可從空拍圖中看得一清二楚, 會更具參考性.  發表於 2015-4-22 13:27

有興趣的自己看以下引言:



Source: www.crash.net

MotoGP Argentina 2015 - Valentino Rossi and Marc Marquez - Racing incident

Sunday's Argentinian MotoGP came to a dramatic climax when Valentino Rossi and reigning double champion Marc Marquez clashed on the penultimate lap.

Seven time champion Rossi, using the extra-hard rear tyre, had reeled in Marquez after the young Spaniard changed to the softer tyre on the grid and pulled an early four-second lead.

Rossi made his first pass under braking for Turn 2 on the same penultimate lap, but ran deep, allowing Marquez to cut back underneath.

This had been the sector in which Marquez was losing the most time to Rossi.

At the end of the back straight Rossi again dived for the inside on the brakes, into the right-hand Turn 5 hairpin.

Marquez likewise attempted to beat Rossi to the apex, just as he had successfully done a few corners before.

But Rossi controlled his braking much better this time and instead of allowing Marquez to turn across behind him,

replays show Marquez was forced to hesitate and lift slightly before leaning in again (due to Rossi still being alongside, a classic block pass).

With hindsight, that turn-in delay probably scuppered Marquez's chances of re-passing Rossi at that corner.

But Marquez still attempted to pass, squirting the throttle but still being half a bikelength behind when they made contact at the apex (Rossi on the outside, Marquez on the inside).

A few seconds later the pair tangled again on the exit of the corner as Rossi, leading by almost a bike length, made the transition from right to left in preparation for the left-hand corner that followed.

Marquez's front wheel was hit by Rossi's rear wheel, sending the reigning double champion tumbling down the track.





Race Direction launched an investigation but soon declared it a racing incident and, from the footage, it is hard to argue otherwise.

Assumptions based on racing lines for the previous laps count for little, since the pair were now in a battle and had made an unusual corner entry, plus the contact at the apex.

Of course, having led from the start, Marquez would not have known Rossi's normal line out of Turn 5 and into Turn 6 anyway.

For what it's worth, Rossi's exit line did not appear different from the lap before.





Did Rossi jink to the right too quickly? Should he have given Marquez more room?

The Italian's fleeting glance to the right just before the (corner exit) contact is seen by some as proof he knew Marquez was there.

Rossi denies he saw Marquez, the glance confirming that Marquez was not alongside.

“For me I think he did a mistake,” Rossi said. “When I opened the throttle to accelerate, because I want to take a small advantage before the next braking, I hear another touch. But sincerely I don't know if it was on the right or left.”





Marquez, who described Rossi as his idol and will therefore be aware of the perils of getting into a public argument with the seven time champion, said only:

“On the final laps I went back in the low 1'39s and knew we would be fighting to the end. But when he passed me - you saw on the video what happened.”





Those viewpoints were echoed by their respective team management.



Yamaha's Lin Jarvis declared that Marquez was in the wrong, while Honda's Livio Suppo skipped over the specifics.

“Unfortunately Marc made a mistake. Well actually he made two mistakes,” Jarvis told MotoGP.com.

“Because after he was passed by Valentino he tried to come back at him too soon, too aggressive, and after the first touch then I think he should have backed off a little bit.

Because clearly Valentino was faster at that stage of the race so to come back at him again and be too close Vale turned in [to Turn 6] - I'm sorry to say but it's Marc's mistake.”



Suppo stated: “Race Direction said it is a racing accident. [It] can happen.

We knew that with the same tyre Valentino was faster so the strategy I think was correct.

The plan was to try to escape and then manage to the end.

The strategy went ok until almost the end!

It's a pity we didn't see a good battle between Vale and Marc, but these things can happen.”





Ultimately Marquez found himself in the wrong place at the wrong time.

But, baring anything reckless by the rider in front, it's up to the rider behind to avoid contact.

To put it another way, Marquez gambled that Rossi wouldn't move across and, in the words of the Italian, “Marc is a rider that always bets all-or-nothing.”

Which is exactly what makes Marquez so special to watch.

Onto Jerez!


89#
nzj323 2015-4-22 23:54 只看這個作者
好樂樂長喔~"~MotoGP 阿根廷站 正賽 討論164

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偷偷靠訴你, 不要跟別人說, 其實我看不太懂這篇...... T_T  發表於 2015-4-23 00:03